Interview: SuperAffiliateTwins.com

The Super Affiliate Twins consist of two sets of Internet marketing twins, John Kirkpatrick and Robert Kirkpatrick (20-years-old) and Ryan Gray and Richard Gray (24-years-old) all originally from Beckley, West Virginia. Together they have over 12 years of experience with online businesses and Internet marketing. Despite being neighbors for nearly 5 years, they began working together in May 2009 and have boasted astronomical profits. In August 2009 they took their story public with their blog located at ‪SuperAffiliateTwins.com‬. For this interview, we interviewed 3 of the 4 twins: Ryan, Richard, and John. Being that the interview is with 3 people, it's very long, but I can definitely say this is one of my favorite interviews so far and that there is a lot of great information throughout.

Ryan Gray and Richard Gray:

Robert Kirkpatrick and John Kirkpatrick:

Tell us a little background info about yourself. Where are you from? How old are you? How long have you been working in this industry?

Ryan: I’m a 24 year old identical twin from the small town of Beckley, West Virginia. I was raised there until I moved to Morgantown, West Virginia in 2003 to attend West Virginia University. I obtained a Bachelors Degree in Business Administration along with minors in Communications and Advertising. I have been working in the online marketing industry for over ten years now. I began in December of 1998.

John: My name is John Kirkpatrick, I’m from Beckley, West Virginia and I’m 19 years old. I’ve been in the affiliate marketing industry since I was 14 years old and have worked my way up the totem pole so to speak. I’m currently pursuing my bachelor’s degree at Wake Forest University.

Richard: I’m a Christian, a hard worker and a sports fanatic from Huntington, West Virginia. My days are very busy as I split time managing my content-based web properties and my campaigns as an affiliate. I’m 24-years-old and I have been working online since November 1999.

What accomplishments so far are you the most proud of?

Ryan: I feel that I have accomplished a lot in my short life, more than a lot of people accomplish in a lifetime. Personally I am very proud to say one of my greatest accomplishments is having strong Christian faith. My faith has allowed be to grow to be the type of businessman I am today. Businesswise, I am very proud to have made over one million dollars and own (not finance) a high-end Mercedes Benz before the age of 25.

John: Just being able to adapt to the ever-changing concepts of the affiliate marketing industry is a huge accomplishment in itself. Being able to make money from multiple sources and being able to actually live comfortably through college is what I’m most proud of.

Richard: I’m very proud of heading up the top professional wrestling news website online with thousands of visitors and paid subscribers. I’m also very proud of my status as a high-volume affiliate.

When did you first realize the full potential in affiliate marketing? When did you first “hit the big time?”

Ryan: Over the last ten years I’ve been very familiar with affiliate marketing, but never realized the potential of it until I started running offers in 2007 (I knew people were making money, but not to the extent that they were). It was at this time I started to do some pretty nice numbers with Google Adwords and Yahoo Search Marketing to only expand to Facebook and MySpace. Once I teamed up with one of my good friends and business partners, Jon Kirkpatrick I “hit the big time” by aggressively media buying and promoting offers with a tremendous amount of capital.

John: When I was 16 years old I opened ZeroPriceTags.com and I started making more money than I thought possible for someone my age as a legitimate incentive marketing site. I thought I had hit the big time my first month of $ XXX, XXX revenue but that proved not to be the case as I would later find out... I knew the potential of affiliate marketing when I had the site but I just never got a taste of it until working with Ryan and Richard.

Richard: My first real taste of success as an affiliate marketer came in August 2008. After months of trial and error, I realized affiliate marketing was a way to make an enormous amount of money. As for “hitting it big time,” I would say it was when Ryan and I joined forces with John. Ryan and I made money online for years, but it went to another level when we teamed with John

What have been your biggest failures and frustrations?

Ryan: I experience failures and frustrations on a daily basis. Even today, as I write this very interview, I lost $1,025.20 by sending traffic to a campaign via Google Adwords that no longer exists. I thought the campaign was slapped, so I didn’t pause it. Bad idea… For whatever reason, Google had the campaign under some type of ‘review’ for a week, until finally today, it decided to start running. In affiliate marketing things change really quickly and the ones that succeed are the ones that can deal with frustrations and learn from failures. I for one never accept failure.

John: I’ve had tons of failures and in hindsight all of them seem extremely stupid. I seem to have a knack for learning things the hard way and it has cost me lots of money and frustration but I manage to bounce back somehow. My biggest frustration would probably be issues dealing with Facebook. I know there is tons of potential but I haven’t had much success lately or much patience with them.

Richard: The most frustrating characteristic I possess is I hate to admit defeat and as a result, I tend to stay with a certain campaign longer than I should. Thankfully I have two business partners that help me with the problem.

What is the single toughest problem you've had to face, and how did you get through it?

Ryan: Credit Card companies have been the toughest problem for me. Even in the very beginning to now, it’s hard to explain to credit card companies why I use my card for so much volume on a daily basis. Being only 24, I’ve never financed anything in my life. The only type of credit I have is revolving accounts that normally carry high balances until the end of the month. Credit card companies look down on this type of activity when they don’t realize we’re the ideal customer they are looking for. Since I work alongside my identical twin brother Richard and John Kirkpatrick, we’re able to all of our credit cards to help out, and now, we have quite a large amount of capital we have available with debit cards and other bank accounts.

John: Probably managing my business endeavors, my college curriculum and pledging a fraternity last semester. I literally had NO time and as a result my business activity really flopped. I lost out on many valuable opportunities because I just didn’t have enough time to juggle social life and schoolwork.

Richard: By far the biggest problem I’ve had to face is breaking into the business. Losing money is hard on anyone, but sticking with it when times are tough is very difficult. I got through it with determination and refusing to give up.

Is there anything that you don’t like to do, that you just hate working on?

Ryan: I sometimes get tired of making new landing pages to only have them fail hours later during a split test/optimization test. While I know it must be done, I still feel that I’ve wasted valuable time.

John: I’d say talking on the phone to negotiate direct media buys. The sites usually don’t understand what we do, what we need to have, or how to set up our tracking. It’s usually a long process that’s dragged out for days and just goes in circles if you have someone who is really lost. I can definitely say I see why many people don’t go direct but the hard work pays off sometimes if you can work some magic.

Richard: I hate dealing with the Google and Facebook ad platforms. They are a real pain in the neck.

What’s the best advice you could give to someone starting out in Internet marketing? Any pro tips you feel like disclosing?

Ryan: Since John, Richard, and I started our SuperAffiliateTwins.com blog back in August, we get emails from beginners on a daily basis asking us for tips, offers to manage their campaigns, etc. I know people don’t want to hear this, but the truth is there is no magic pill to take and start making Internet millions. My advice is to work hard, don’t accept failure, and believe in what you’re doing. So many people want to make the money but aren’t willing to put the time into it. People need to quit spending so much time searching for the ‘magic pill’ and get to work. The most successful Internet marketers are the guys that spend hours upon hours online each and every day busting their rear ends to optimize, create, and innovate new campaigns. There is also no substitute for getting your credit card out, throwing your real-life money at a campaign, and getting it to work.

John: The first thing I stress is to have the right mindset going into it. I usually tell them to follow by these rules: If it were easy, everyone would be doing it and you’ve got to start somewhere. Everyone who asks me about Internet marketing in “real world” always has the misconception that it’s easy and they want to be on the same level as I am overnight.

Richard: If you are scared to invest money, life as an affiliate is not for you. In this business you have to spend money to make money and if you don’t like taking risks, you will go crazy before you ever “make it”.

What is the future of marketing?

Ryan: Online Marketing is only going to continue to grow. As companies realize how cost-effective the Internet can be as a marketing tool, the demand for advertising online is only going to grow. While shady re-bill campaigns are only temporary, Internet marketing is here to stay and grow to levels I can’t even imagine.

John: I don’t have anything more than pure speculation but if I had to say I’d say mobile. Of course they have been saying that for years so who really knows how soon that will come.

Richard: I think the days of the re-bills are limited and the industry is going to go back more towards lead generation. I also think mobile is going to be huge.

If it’s possible for you to share, are there any particular niches that you currently favor? Or that you aren’t necessarily in right now but that you would recommend?

Ryan: Female weight loss in the United States is going to continue to be one of the top niches until the end of time. It seems like every women in the United States think they’re fat even if they’re not. Therefore there is never going to be a time where they aren’t buying a product/tool/resource to help them look the best. As affiliates we must capitalize on this. Sure, the acai/colon flogs aren’t going to stay around, but it’s just a matter of time until that next big ‘weight loss miracle’ is introduced to consumers.

John: Not in particular, just whichever one is making me the most money at any given time is my current favorite. If I had to recommend for now, I’d say weight loss related. Weight loss campaigns in January are very lucrative if done right.

Richard: If you’re just getting started, do not go with the most popular niches. The most popular niches are going to have the most competition and are going to make it hard to get your feet wet. If you are a small fish trying to compete with the big guys, you are going to get crushed.

Has your education prepared you for your career?

Ryan: Yes and no. Without a doubt my education held me back in my career. At the age of 15 I was already making a full-time income working online. I begged and pleaded for my parents to allow me to quit high school to pursue my career. They wouldn’t hear of it. My online friends at the time went on to create HUGE companies (Freeze.com, Invision Power Board, Click Spark), while I was left sitting in a classroom listening to some lecture on how we evolved from monkeys. In the end though, I’m glad I went on to obtain my degree as it has helped me understand different aspects of business that I wouldn’t had I not completed my education.

John: Well, so far I haven’t had many business classes since I’ve only been in college for a year and a half. I do take a marketing class next semester that is supposed to be pretty tough so we’ll see if I learn anything valuable from that...

Richard: I have a Business Management degree from West Virginia University and the best thing my education did for me was helped me grow up. College prepared me for real-life problems as well as real-life success. I wouldn’t trade my degree for anything and am glad that I went to college.

What are your greatest strengths?

Ryan: Without a doubt, my work ethic. Ask my identical twin brother, my father, or my mother. All will tell you I never take anything lightly. Whenever I set my mind to something I see that it happens, and happens the “best.” For example, one year I wanted to become muscular. I got a personal trainer, started dieting, and before long I gained 40 lbs of ripped lean muscle. I made sure I had the “best” six pack and could bench press more than anyone else within my immediate family/friends. When I put my mind to something, I’m going to get it done, 110%.

John: Strengths... I’d say being able to apply data and figure out what’s going to work. Sometimes people don’t like to dig deep into reports and look at all the ratios and what not but just like any type of investing, it’s a gamble and I like to calculate my chances.

Richard: I’m a very talented writer and problem solver. I’m competitive and hate to give up on anything. I’m more concerned about success than I am money. Working for money is no way to stay motivated because no matter how much you make, it’s never enough.

What are your greatest weaknesses?

Ryan: I’m impatient. When I want something to happen, I want it to happen RIGHT NOW. Not tomorrow, or a week, but RIGHT NOW. I HATE waiting on campaign approvals.

John: Sometimes I get worried about a campaign and cut it short too early. Usually I don’t give it more than 24 hours if my optimization techniques are right. Sometimes I’m right but if I trusted my gut and let the red negative numbers get to me then we would have missed out on a lot. Set some rules and follow them.

Richard: Refusing to lose. One of my affiliate managers told me the other day “you can’t win them all”. It’s true but I hate it nonetheless.

What is the best advice you’ve been given and try to apply to your life?

Ryan: During the conclusion of one of my business management classes, the professor became teary-eyed and poured his heart out to every single student sitting in the classroom. He talked about integrity and how only each of us can maintain our own. Integrity maintains the type of person you are and the type of business you conduct.

John: I can’t say that a piece of advice has stuck with me for a long time but whenever I can pick up a book I usually take the quotes and concepts to heart and try to apply them to my life for the next couple of weeks/months to see how they change things. Right now I’m reading 4 Hour Work Week. I think the title is kind of cheesy but it’s a great book and stresses on a lot of concepts that are foreign to me.

Richard: The best advice I’ve been given is to always work hard. I’ve applied this basic clichéd adage to everything I do. Business, my personal life, weight lifting, cleaning, etc. I work hard at absolutely everything. When I do something, I do it with 110% effort.

Do you have any role models or people that you look up to?

Ryan: Both of my grandfathers were Entrepreneurs. My Grandfather on the Gray side grew up very poor without any parents and went on to create a successful business. My Grandfather on my mother’s side was the same way. He grew up very poverty stricken and went on to create a number of successful businesses (now, one his next door neighbor owns is the Baltimore Ravens). My Grandfather on the Gray side passed in the late 1990’s but my other Grandfather is still alive. I look up to both of them for the values they taught me as a young child. They taught me to always have faith and live a Godly life.

John: Warren Buffett. If you haven’t read his autobiography I strongly suggest it. Even though he’s not a marketer, he is a great businessman and an inspiration of mine.

Richard: The role models in my life have been the men of my family. Both of my grandfathers (one is now deceased) and my father. All three had success but accomplished it by working very hard

Who has impacted you most in your career, and how?

Ryan: My identical twin brother Richard and great friend John Kirkpatrick (both business partners). My identical twin brother Richard has always been hard on me. When I first started affiliate marketing he would yell at me if I lost $100 a day on a particular campaign. With him being so hard on me, it gave me the drive to continue to work hard and succeed. John on the other hand gave me the confidence to utilize my talents to the fullest. Even when we started a company together and were losing thousands of dollars a day, John believed in me and allowed me to gain trust in myself. I love both of them for the things they’ve done.

John: Probably Ryan and Richard to be honest, we work together in a collaboration that creates success that I think I would have had a lot more trouble finding alone.

Richard: My brother Ryan has impacted my career the most. Ryan and I are identical twins so we are always trying to “top each other” and as a result we’ve had a lot of success working together. Being an identical twin is very special, but the competitive nature it has produced inside of me gives me an advantage over my competitors.

Do you try to keep current with the latest Internet marketing news at all? What or who are your main sources?

Ryan: Of course. One of the most valuable things I learned in college was, read about the industry you’re in daily. Therefore, I hit up AffBuzz.com daily to see what is going on in the affiliate world. I had the pleasure of meeting the owner Justin at AdTech NYC this year while we were visiting the Azoogle office.

John: I check AffBuzz every single day and that usually gives me my fix on Internet news. Occasionally I will browse WickedFire but I will rarely ever post or take any the posts seriously.

Richard: I honestly do not have time. I go to AffBuzz.com everyday but I briefly skim the page looking for interesting posts. However, I do make my way over to JonathanVolk.com a couple of times a week;).

What kinds of people do you have difficulties working with? Any good stories?

Ryan: Being involved working online; I’ve met some interesting characters to say the least. I don’t want to be judgmental, but I will say I’ve seen some of the “stereotypical nerds” at their best. That said the people I have the most difficulty working with is people that don’t pay. If someone or some company completes a service for you, you pay. There are no excuses for degenerates that don’t pay their bills and pay them on time. NO EXCUSE.

John: Arrogant people, for some reason I run into a lot of arrogant designers in particular who feel like they should literally be paid $50 for simply opening Photoshop. I can’t design very well so it’s kind of stupid for me to complain but regardless...

Richard: I have difficulties working with people that are lazy or have a hidden agenda. There are stories I could tell, but I’d rather not re-live the sour memories. I’m happy with the people I currently work with.

What are some of your long-term goals? How much is enough? If money was no object, what would you be doing?

Ryan: I’m just getting started in my career. Let’s get one thing straight. Money doesn’t impress me nor does it motivate me. I don’t care if you have 100 billion dollars, I’m not impressed. Therefore, I have several short-term and long-term goals. I literally have thousands of ideas I’m using waiting until the right time execute. If I make one billion dollars in my career, that’s still not enough. I don’t gauge success on money. Some of the wealthiest people I know are also the most miserable. In my personal opinion, I was put on this world for a reason. Not just to make hundreds of millions of dollars, but to do something special with my life. If money was no object, I would still be doing what I am doing right now; working 12 hours + a day to become a better businessman, affiliate, and person overall.

John: To get through college and have some very long-term campaigns running. We don’t have any individual projects or campaigns running that are long-term enough for my liking. I have a couple of goals that involve opening brick and mortar businesses that can run on autopilot. How much is enough? It seems like that money grows larger every day... who knows.

Richard: I want all of the things I have going to be very successful. I don’t plan on slowing down anytime soon. No matter how big my business grows there will always be room for improvement. I believe it’s important to be happy but never to be satisfied. I would absolutely be doing the exact same thing if money was no object. I didn’t start working online for money. I started working online because I thought it was neat I could impact the lives of others by using my creativity in the comfort of my own home. The money has always been a bonus.

What are your typical hours like? When do you just chill back? Do you have a usual day off?

Ryan: This is a fun question to answer, I don’t know why… While my schedule changes depending on what I have to do, here is a typical day in the life of Ryan Gray. I wakeup no later than 10:00 a.m. ET everyday. I love to sleep and hate waking up early. I break briefly for lunch, to go to the gym, and to go to dinner. Other than that I’m working until I go to bed at 2 or 3 a.m. Sometimes I’ll treat myself to a late-night CNBC special or read a book about one of my favorite Entrepreneurs. The majority of my time is spent online and I love every second of it! I take most Sundays off to go to church, wash my car, and clean up my home. However, there is never a day; I don’t do at least a few hours of work.

John: Five days a week, I wake up at 8:00 AM and then go to class at 9:00 AM, 10:00 AM, eat lunch at 11:00 and then at 11:30 AM I start my work day. I work till 2:00 go to class and then from 3:00 till 11:00 I divide my time between homework, business, and fraternity activities.

Richard: I do not like to get up early but I never sleep later than 10AM. Once I’m up, I go nonstop until I go to bed. Despite my nonstop work regiment I still find time to spend with my fiancée, work out, read my Bible and follow my favorite sports teams (Dallas Cowboys & Atlanta Braves) but there are few “wasted moments” in my day. I cannot remember the last time I was bored and I never have a day off. My weekends aren’t as busy but I still work and Sunday morning’s are reserved for church.

How do you like to spend your free time? What doe work-life balance mean to you?

Ryan: Like I said above, I spend the majority of my time behind a computer and love every second of it. In my free time I do enjoy going to the gym and hanging out with my girlfriend, Brianna. Since I absolutely love what I do for a living, I don’t work. If I didn’t do what I did for a living I’d do it as a hobby. So my work is my life because it’s not work at all! I started working online as a hobby and still look at it like that to this today. Just so happens, I make money doing what I love!

John: Most of it drinking to be honest, haha, sometimes play basketball or soccer. It’s important but I often spend my free time working.

Richard: I spend my free time with my fiancée and watching sports. It’s important to get away from the computer but it’s hard to do it when there’s work to be done. I like the weekends or the evenings when everything slows down. It’s important to balance work and life because life offers a lot of adventures and while having success in my business is important, it’s not my top priority in life. My faith in God, fiancée and family come before business because without those things, success and money means nothing.

If you could go back to being 18, what different career choices would you make?

Ryan: This is a tough question to answer. As I’ve already stated, I held myself back by going to college, but now I’m really glad I did. These years allowed me to mature and meet people and do things that I would have never experienced. Therefore, if I know what I know today, and could go back and do things over again, I would have taken education a lot more serious. I would have worked harder in high school and would have attended a college with a much more demanding curriculum. While I know that I will probably never work for anyone else, there is a lot of education to be learned and I wish I would have taken advantage of certain resources while they were available to me.

John: I am 19 so I have some time to decide, haha.

Richard: I wouldn’t change a thing Jon. I’m living my dream, hoping when I wake up I’m in heaven with my creator.

If your Kindergarten teacher saw you now, what would surprise him/her about how you turned out?

Ryan: My Kindergarten teacher happened to be good friends with my mother and she believed in me. I’m sure she’s not surprised on bit at where I am in my life today.

John: They would probably be surprised how far I’ve come compared to my old cronies in Kindergarten. I was kind of a bad kid.

Richard: My Kindergarten teacher would be surprised how outgoing I’ve become. I was very introverted growing up but now I can talk to anyone and I love social situations. Hopefully my success would not surprise her.

What would you like to change about yourself?

Ryan: To not worry so much about business all the time.

John: That I worry too much about business and school.

Richard: I would like to have more patience. Not just in business but in every aspect of my life.

What is your greatest achievement outside of work? What are some of your unfulfilled dreams?

Ryan: Helping others find faith and giving back. It’s my goal to help out as many people as I can before I leave this earth.

John: Hard to think about because almost everything I do revolves around me being absorbed in my work. I would say my unfulfilled dreams are finding my dream girl.

Richard: My greatest achievement outside of work has been meeting my fiancée and asking her to marry me. It’s very difficult to find “the one” and I was extremely proud to have found my bride-to-be and I can’t wait to get married in June. As for unfulfilled dreams, I want to do more to help others. It’s important to me that I use my success to make the lives of people that are not as fortunate as me better. I want everyone to live successful and fulfilling lives.